March 23, 2021

S2:E4 Anissa | Parosmia IV: "Am I Stuck Like This?"


In our fourth episode, we talk with Anissa - the self-described "cook of the family" who can barely bring herself to eat anything besides peanut m&ms. She spoke to us about how parosmia disconnects her from the rest of the world: she can't eat enough to keep up her fitness regimen, celebratory & holiday meals once full of connection and memory are uncomfortable, and she is left with the question "am I stuck like this?" 

In spite of her frustration, she has found a wonderful outlet: photography. "It's kind of replaced all of the energy I would put towards like working out and, and whatnot." Her work is beautiful, so go check it out on Instagram @anissalatifphotography! Happy listening!

Transcript
Caroline Amos:

Hi, I'm Carolyn Amos.

Raymond McAnally:

And I'm Raymond McAnally.

Caroline Amos:

And we are

Caroline Raymond:

Fatigued (laughter)

Caroline Amos:

Aneesa. Hello.

Anissa:

Hi. (laughter)

Raymond McAnally:

That was abrupt.

Caroline Amos:

I'm sorry. I just woke up from a nap. So I'm still wrapping my head around being a human being for the day. Thank you so much for taking an absolute chance and talking to two total strangers about your experience with Parosmia.

Anissa:

Well, thank you for having me.

Caroline Amos:

Yeah! Well, let's let's jump right in. So talk to us. I understand that you experienced these symptoms starting in April of last year?

Anissa:

Yes. April 6, to be exact.

Caroline Amos:

Oh my gosh -

Raymond McAnally:

Oh wow, you know the day.

Anissa:

Oh, yeah. The day life changed.

Caroline Amos:

Oh, my God. No kidding. What was like the first little sneaking example of the fact that your smell and taste were gone?

Anissa:

Yeah. So it started out as Anosmia. And it's actually nice to finally like, have a term for it. Because for the longest time, I didn't know what to call it. It was just like, I can't smell or taste anything. But on April 6, I believe it was a Monday, I woke up. First thing I do is I make coffee. And as I'm making it, I can't smell it. I'm like this is this is a little strange. When I added my creamer to it, I couldn't taste it either. Like this is very odd. First thing I do is I grab some vinegar. I'm like, let me smell it because my sister was also in nursing school at the time. So we were kind of familiar with the fact that people might not be able to smell or anything. And it was still pretty early on in the pandemic. So it wasn't like a symptom. Like it was kind of a symptom, but it wasn't really announced. It's like one of the symptoms. So I grabbed the vinegar, and I smell that couldn't smell anything. I'm looking for some bleach, I'm smelling that I'm

Caroline Amos:

Oh No like this. This is bizarre. But the thing is, I didn't. I wasn't like really sick, like, I could breathe. And I was like, What is going on? Like, how could this happen? without actually, you know, being on a ventilator or whatever. The thing is that we had, we later found out that we had COVID, about a month afterwards, and we did the antibodies test. But like our experience with COVID was very different. We just had like a mild, it seemed like a flu. It wasn't anything too crazy. So the thing that separated it from a experience of having a flu was the fact that like I couldn't smell or taste anything. I've never experienced anything like it, there wasn't any congestion or anything. It's not like I could say, you know, I couldn't breathe through my nose. So I couldn't taste anything. It was just like this complete absence of -

Raymond McAnally:

And you live with multiple family members, did everybody have the same loss of taste and smell symptoms as you initially?

Anissa:

So it was that it's kind of funny. So we were actually staying in an extended stay at the time. So what happened was my father had passed away in October.

Caroline Raymond:

I'm so sorry.

Anissa:

And it wasn't from from COVID us from a heart attack. So we were doing some repairs in the house. And we had to stay in an Extended Stay for a period of time. And this was like right when the pandemic so it was like early March, right before things started shutting down. So we're stuck in this hotel. My brother's away in college, and we're telling him, you know, stay in your dorm for as long as you can. So it's my sister, my mother and I and our dog and our cat in this one bedroom, like hotel. (laughter) So my, my mom was still dealing with, you know, the renovations going on. So she's going to like Home Depot, I was still, you know, kind of working. We were doing like shorten shorten days. So it wasn't like full weeks. And then my sister was doing her last semester in nursing school. So we're not exactly sure where the exposure happened. But we were all obviously living in an Extended Stay where we knew there were people like Essential Workers staying, so it wasn't like it came out of nowhere. So my mom started out feeling kind of kind of sick. And you know, when you stay in a hotel room, you kind of think that okay, because the air is dry. Maybe I can be getting like a flu or a cold or something...

Caroline Amos:

Totally, like there's different bacteria here and it's just irritating the bacteria that I have like our bacterias are not getting along very well.

Raymond McAnally:

Yeah. That's so scientific (laughter)

Anissa:

Like your nose is so dry. That you're like okay, well clearly everything is getting past my dry nostrils.

Caroline Amos:

Yes. Oh, the worst feeling.

Anissa:

Exactly. It's horrible. So, you know, it wasn't luxurious living in this hotel at all at all. And so my mom, she's she's not feeling well and we don't think much of it. We're like you can clearly breathe. We don't have to put you on a ventilator. Don't have to go to the hospital. So like, we don't think it's COVID. And then my sister she started, she didn't feel too, too great. The thing is my sister's allergic to everything. So we're like, this is probably allergy season. And then, and then for me, it was really like, I can't taste or smell anything. It was that morning. And I'm like, this is bizarre. And for me, I'm like the cook of the house. Okay. I'm like, What is going on? Like, this is the absolute worst thing that could have possibly happened. But then that week, I also - that's when I also got got sick.

Raymond McAnally:

So your first symptom was taste and smell loss?

Anissa:

Yeah. And then it was followed with a fever. I had like 100 degree fever for about, you know, a week. fatigue, aches and pains and whatnot. The thing is, I mean, this might be a little TMI, but the reason why I didn't think it was COVID was because - so like, when I get my period, like, I would also get, like, a period flu. And like my dog, my god.

Caroline Amos:

Yes. Okay. I've heard of it. And I've experienced it, girl, I get it.

Anissa:

Oh, my God. It's horrible. So it's like, you literally get a fever, and you're literally like sick and congested. And so it was at the same week. I also, I assumed it was just like a period flu like, this cannot be COVID. It cannot be COVID.

Caroline Amos:

Well, it's sort of amazing how much like denial everybody sort of experienced. Yeah, with this, and especially with other women, like you're not the first woman I've talked to who's been like, who has like discredited their Covid symptoms, because they thought that it was their period. Like it's happening across the board -

Anissa:

It's happened to other people to?

Caroline Amos:

Oh yeah, I mean we're so used to like, the menstrual bullshit, that it's like, oh, well, all of these weird things happening to me must be ma dang uterus again (laughter)

Raymond McAnally:

Well, Marilyn brought up that even the doctors kind of wrote her metallic taste symptoms off his low iron, like iron deficiency and related to her period. And she's like this. This has been going on for months. This is not that.

Caroline Amos:

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's where we are no strangers to the odd body phenomenon. (laughter)

Anissa:

Literally, all of us are just sitting there, like in denial that we could possibly have this, you know, global.

Raymond McAnally:

Plague.

Anissa:

Yeah, exactly. So I started counting down like, each week, it would be like, okay, one week, I still can't smell or taste. It would go by like 10 12 15 20 weeks and like, this is insane. I developed Parosmia in October.

Caroline Amos:

Whoa. Months later?

Anissa:

Yes. So it was a long time. And that was terrible. It was worse going through Parosmia than then like having no smell or taste at all.

Caroline Amos:

No kidding!

Raymond McAnally:

So explain to our listeners in case they haven't heard any of the other Parosmia interviews yet? And if they haven't, they're really behind and they need to catch up. But we - what is that shift when you say you went from Anosmia to Parosmia? What was that shift in symptoms like for you?

Anissa:

So it's going from a complete so Anosmia is a complete absence of smell or taste. And Parosmia I believe that it is this experience of getting your you know, you're experiencing smells, but they are wrong smells, they and they're awful smells. It's actually smells I've never smelled before like I describe it, as you know, rotting trash or rancid meat. Spoiled, like a sweet spoiled vegetable. Or like burning rubber or like burns coffee. But but it's I've smelled those things before. And it's like worse than that. It is it's heightened. It's it's really intense. And it's so nauseating that when I smell that I'm just like completely repulsed. And it's the kind of thing where like, even if I'm closing my nose, I don't. I don't want that that strange taste in my mouth. But it's like the wrong tastes the wrong smell. And it's bizarre and it'll come out of nowhere. It's like worse than been like, you know, on the New York subway in the summer.

Caroline Amos:

Oh my god, there are a few things worse than that smell.

Anissa:

Exactly, exactly.

Raymond McAnally:

Like Hell's butthole is what that is. (laughter)

Anissa:

Exactly! So what do you put into terms like that. Then it's like, well, I literally want to eat nothing.

Caroline Amos:

Oh, no. And you're the cook of the family too.

Anissa:

I'm the cook of the family. And I guess like, for me especially It was very difficult because the reason I had mentioned my father's passing before was because he passed away in October 2019 and around that time. I got really into, you know, like health and fitness, I'd always been into it, but it was part of like my grieving process that I suddenly just put all of my energy into that focusing on going to the gym very early in the morning, preparing all of my meals, you know, eating like a very high protein diet, I had put on a lot of a lot of weight, but it was like, it was muscle mass that I was building seems like a very active and healthy diet. And then obviously, when COVID comes in, shuts down the world, and gyms included, obviously, it was impacted there. But you know, you can work out at home and whatnot. The thing is, that made it very difficult was the fact that when my smell and taste was impacted, it's like I went from having at least like 1800 calories a day to like literally 300 400 500 less than that. There were days where I would just like have two cups of coffee, and I wouldn't want anything else. Like I was for a period of time, like over the summer. All I could eat were peanut m&ms and like bread occasionally.

Raymond McAnally:

Because that was the only thing that tasted somewhat palatable, really?

Anissa:

Yes, mhm, and that was that was another thing that like I could sense when things were sweet and salty. I couldn't taste it. But I could sense it. So I was drawn to sweeter foods and saltier foods which, which happened to be junk, which happened to be things that I really was not eating. And I hadn't really Brooks

Raymond McAnally:

similar about her. She She was basically bread and butter for a while because those for some reason that those two tastes were, were somewhat enjoyable.

Caroline Amos:

And she also mentioned sour, she liked sour things because it would like her mouth would fill up with saliva. So like her body was like, Oh, I'm eating something sour right now. I don't know if you've tried it, but I highly recommend it.

Raymond McAnally:

Even though she couldn't taste it didn't taste normal. But her body response, I guess brought back the memory, which also relates to stuff we talked about with Chrissi Kelly, from AbScent about smell training. I don't know if you've done any of that?

Anissa:

Interesting. Well, no, no, apart from like, trying to like smell weird, really weird things like the bleach and the vinegar. And you know, see if I could sense it. But it's, it's interesting that you're talking about bringing the saliva back, because I just noticed that all I could experience was like a dry mouth. And it was very hard to swallow foods. Like even if I wanted to just like eat chicken. You know, like, people were like, this is great. You can eat all healthy foods, but I'm like, there were certain foods that I couldn't, I couldn't even I went from eating chicken multiple times a week to all of a sudden, like putting it in my mouth. I wanted to throw up, my mouth wa so dry. I couldn't swallow it

Raymond McAnally:

I never thought about that. About how how many things are at play in causing that saliva response. And that's there to actually help us. You know, eat the food. Oh, my God, like

Anissa:

Its like I couldn't even force myself and I'm like, I'm literally starving myself. And I don't want to do this. Because it could have been great. You know, I could have been like on a strict Okay, veggies and chicken all the time that I couldn't do it. And...

Raymond McAnally:

Well, I had that thought when I mean, I only lost taste and smell for three days. But I was like, well, I've been on a weight loss kick. Maybe this will help get me to a new plateau. can't smell or taste anything for a few weeks. But it is so disconcerting. Not knowing any of that. And you're on what month of this? You're, you're almost a year in?

Caroline Amos:

Yeah, next next month is going to be a year. Oh god, I'm so I'm so sorry.

Anissa:

I mean, I mean, like, but by now, it's kind of like it sucks. But I also I feel weird talking about other people because, you know, people have had relatives die from COVID. You know, they've had they experienced the loss. So I feel like I have experienced a lot of like, personal loss, but at the same time, a lot of like guilt about that because it's clearly not as bad as you know, losing somebody or, you know, I don't know being in a coma for months or like, being very sick. Like, I'm clearly like, alive and I can move and stuff it just... Well, I mean, it does, it does.

Raymond McAnally:

That's a quality of life shift though. So yeah, like it's not a competition. Nobody needs to. Nobody needs to have the worst case scenario to win. It's, that's, that's real. And that's -

Anissa:

Like, I can't work out anymore. I've lost a lot of like, I lost like 12 pounds, which doesn't seem like a lot, but like I'm 5' 2", and I'd put on like a lot of muscle muscle mass. And it's like, I feel so frail. I can't like I can't work out. And when I do when I try to like I can't consume enough calories to even maintain any kind of like, you know, muscle growth. So what's the point?

Caroline Amos:

It's all connected. It's all connected and it's amazing to think that like one some like small disability with your like taste and your smell is now informing and your entire physicality and your entire, like bodily functions every single day. I mean, I would have never ever thought that that one thing would lead to so much stress and strife.

Raymond McAnally:

Also what your body is working through because it is working through something. And so it's a compounded issue, it actually reminds me of somewhat of chemo patients like I remember when my dad had chemo. He, he could not keep weight on, he was just dropping weight like crazy. So the doctor was like, have at it, eat whatever you know you want. Except he couldn't taste anything. He had a trac tube. And he couldn't taste anything. So I would come home with bags of candy bars. And he would take giant scoops of ice cream, milk candy bars and blend them in a blender, so that he could drink them. I mean, these were like 4000 calorie serving a blender full of content. And he was like, This is amazing. I've wanted to do this my whole life. The only problem is I can't taste any of it, you know, but he was doing it to try to keep some kind of weight on and I know it's a know physiologically that's different. But it's also a comparison because your body's going through so much. And and you're going through so much. I mean, appetite tanks, and you just you just can't You can't keep up with what your body needs.

Anissa:

But also like in line with that, like, it's not just the calories. It's also nutrients. You know, I can't imagine like the nutritional deficiency that you know, your father experienced, like, people like me, who are living on m&ms and bread and butter. Yeah. You know, it's like, a lot of other things.

Raymond McAnally:

Yeah, when when he had cancer, that Ensure had just come out. Oh, yeah, it was probably like a year or so old. And he was pounding those. Yeah, just just to get the nutritional value. So I don't know, I don't know what else what is out there that have you tried any, like powder form, nutritional drink kind of stuff, just to make sure you're getting that intake?

Anissa:

So I do have protein powder. Honestly, it's one of those things I probably should just try to try to just ingest but it's just, it's, it's different. It's different because it doesn't fill you up the same way that like food does. You know, like I always use protein powder as like a supplement like this will hold me off into like a meal. But there are times when you're just like you just want your stomach to be filled up with like actual substance not liquid.

Raymond McAnally:

You also use a word that's so clinical, but it's like it's where you are right now with consuming food. I'm sure it's just ingesting like I just need to ingest something, take it in my body needs something. There's no enjoyment to it. There's no, like, want or desire. I just have to do this.

Anissa:

Yeah. And when you think about it, like so much of just human interactions, just the way that we process the way we celebrate things, birthdays, holidays, you know, our first holiday under, you know, this lockdown or whatnot. Thanksgiving, I burned a few dishes, because I couldn't smell it.

Caroline Amos:

Of course!

Anissa:

Yeah, birds are some of the meat I burned some of the stuffing!

Caroline Amos:

I would hope that your family isn't going to be like too, too upset with you, given everything that you've been exposed.

Anissa:

No, they were like his tastes great. And like, Okay, well, I don't even know what it tastes like, you know, like, when you're eating holiday foods. And, you know, it always like reminds us of our dad and whatnot. And just like being with family, I couldn't even partake in those kinds of things of just like celebrating those kind of shared moments. And just

Caroline Amos:

Yeah you know, the nostalgia factor of Yeah, like, OH. yeah, definitely. Because like a Thanksgiving kitchen just is already so evoking of so many memories and things. Yeah, I hadn't even thought about that factor, too. I mean, it really it just continues to sort of, the more people we talk to about this, the more I'm realizing that like our centers connected to so much more beyond ourselves. And it is such a way like for connection to the world around us. And I mean, man, God, I'm just I feel like I'm a little bit of a broken record. When you're upset you want a pint of ice cream! Yes. Also, though, when I'm upset, I want peanut m&ms, like that's my go to foods. So the fact that like you're living on those right now, I'm like, good for you. That sounds great, right? If you go to Costco, you could get a big box for like ten bucks. Yes, yeah, they're amazing. Have you tried the pretzel m&ms because those are my personal fave. And they've got that salty factor.

Anissa:

Really, oh I haven't tried to, I should look into those.

Caroline Amos:

They're really really good. (Music)

Raymond McAnally:

Have you been able to discern Whether or not you, you still have altered taste and smell? I remember Brooke saying that she wasn't sure about her taste because this smell was so powerful that it like she wasn't sure at times if she was tasting something when things would come and go. Or if the smell was so rancid, so bad that she, she was just judging everything by the smell issue.

Anissa:

So, that's a very interesting question, because I would have to say that sometimes it depends. Because sometimes, if the smell is so bad, like, I used to love garlic and onions, like garlic, on anything, garlic smell so bad to me that if it's like frying in a pan, like when my mom's cooking dinner, she's frying garlic, and like, I can't even be in the right to shut the room, like the door to the room, I have to keep on the fan open the windows, it is awful. So then that will just completely deterred me from even wanting to eat the food. So there are certain things that I feel like when I'm eating it. I think I might be imagining, but I'm tasting it. Sure, like, like, I really enjoy bubble tea, like lychee bubble tea, it's like one of my. And that's another thing I really like the texture of foods. So you know, crunchy things really like chewy things, I enjoy that now. But I can't tell if I'm just imagining the taste of it.

Raymond McAnally:

There's a component to that memory, even when even if you do have full taste and smell, there's a there's a reason why we go back for the same thing over and over again, where we get our favorite food at our favorite restaurant, or why we go back to our favorite snack, because in our brains, as we're taking that bite, we're also going Oh, I know what this is gonna taste like. And it's almost sometimes if you've ever had the bad version of your favorite thing, you can almost trick yourself that you're still eating the good version of it. You know? It's I mean, it's all so intertwined. It reminds me of - I was a philosophy major in college. And one of the craziest classes we had was on metaphysics and how we only know. You know, we're kind of limited to our senses. So like matrix theory, right? I only know that things exist by my five senses. So if I don't have my five senses, what exists? And so there's that bit, there's a bit of that component there. Like, how much of this is neurological how much of this is physiological we asked Chrissi Kelly from AbScent about that a little bit. Because at the end of the day, our senses are filtered through our brain. So where if we were able to help people in this position? Where should we be starting? Is this something that has gotten a switch that we need to switch back neurologically? Or is this a physiological thing? And I, you know, I don't know the answer. I'm just curious.

Caroline Amos:

It is surprising to think that there are things in the world that we cannot cure. There is no definite answer to this, there is no medicine that you can take, and it is better. And I think the most glaring example of of that happening is, especially with this pandemic, you know, there is no medicine that we can take that will make COVID go away. I mean, yeah, we've got the vaccine, but there's nothing that will absolutely take away those symptoms. This additional symptom of the loss of taste and smell, the fact that there is no cure is so disheartening and unsettling. And it can really, it is so random, it'll happen, it could happen to anybody. And just when you might think that it could never happen to you, it'll, it'll come out and it'll getcha. So I mean, my heart goes out to everybody who has been like, you know, randomly selected to have this illness and symptom upon them.

Raymond McAnally:

Yeah, cuz it's so interesting that here you are, I mean, you're genetically intertwined with all the folks in your, that you live with that you had that also had this, you know, through the antibody test, and you're the only one dealing with this particular longhaul symptom from it.

Anissa:

The thing is that my mom and my sister they both experienced it, but it wasn't as severe. Like it was more mild. Like my mom, she felt she said that it was more of like her senses were dulled down. And the thing is that my mom and my sister have always been the kind of people who have always been very sensitive to smell, and for them it kind of like, dulled it down. Well, for me. It felt like it was just a heightened sense of disgust across the board and it's very isolating. So like when you're talking about, you know, how your senses kind of connect you to the world, it's like, there's some, there's some times where it just feels really lonely. Because there's, it's like, very difficult to enjoy things, you know, like, I don't want to go out and do things because, you know, interacting with other people really involves a lot of food and eating. And when you can't even share that experience, like, well, I don't even want to do that. I don't even have the energy to do that. So, like, I find myself like, I can't work

Raymond McAnally:

I hope not, too. And thank you for, for out, do the things that I used to love to do. I mean, obviously, like photography has been kind of, you know, a blessing for me, but it's just, it's very, I don't, I don't know, like I spent a lot of time just be really upset about it. But then at the same time, I can't. Like I understand why in the middle, this pandemic, they're obviously going to be focused more on, okay, curing people who are going to end up on a ventilator to the people who are potentially going to die like it's not as pressing. But I think that the effects are just, it's, you know, I'm part of this Facebook group, where they talk about, you know, people go through and ask me and promised me, and, obviously, people have been experiencing this way longer than this pandemic. And even those people are like, Well, we've gone through this for years, and there isn't a cure. When I spoke with my neurologist, we had an appointment, like a virtual appointment pretty early on, and like June, May, June. And he was pretty much saying that, if it's nerve damage, there's nothing they can do, but wait for nerves to grow back. And like, my own father, he, you know, he had, apart from, you know, passing away from his heart attack, he also had issues, he was allergic to gluten, which, you know, people had celiac disease, it actually causes a lot of damage to their digestive system. And it caused a lot of nerve damage to him, like in his leg, so he was dealing with nerve damage, but wasn't able to get repaired or improve at all, if he was dealing with that. And then it was kind of like, well, we could take care of the pain, but they're not going to grow back. So when my neurologist was telling me, it's nerve damage, then I'm like, Well, clearly, there might not be any way to resolve this. I'm not too sure. But when I heard that it was a little disheartening, because I thought that when nerves are damaged, you know, they don't they don't come back. And if that's what this is, like, am I stuck like this? You know, is this really going to be the rest of my life? Like? I hope not. sharing that. Because it's, it's got to be incredibly frustrating. Also, it's one of those things that and I can think of a few examples where what you're dealing with is not visible to the rest of the world. So people don't I can imagine even a doctor incredibly interested in this wanting to help patients solve this problem. It is such an individualized experience, like what you're going through his internal it's, it's there's no physical, outward exemplification of it. So we don't quite know when it's hitting you the hardest or when it's not, we only know from what you're able to tell us. And if you're spent and tired of talking about it and tired of dealing with it, then then that's just just where we remain. I mean, it's it's, I'm, I'm so sorry for everybody going through this. We've been saying this a lot. And -

Anissa:

I'm just so grateful that you've given me this platform to do so because I feel like I complained so much my friends and family, that it's almost like she's just going to be talking about that again.

Raymond McAnally:

Well, now, listen to this episode, telling everybody I meet about this. Yeah, have a listen. We did that with our symptoms. When people would contact us and like how are you feeling like he just listened to Episode One.

Caroline Amos:

Episode Two! Yeah. (laughter)

Raymond McAnally:

Well, thank you for saying that, because that's actually why we started this. Yes. It this needs to be documented. You're right, that right now, the medical community is focused on the folks who might not make it. They're on ventilators, they're, you know, we're all trying to get vaccinated. So the morbidity rate plummets, and it's next to nothing. And then we got to deal with people who've been long haul affected by this. I mean, there are there are people who had no pre existing pre existing conditions before this who now have kidney disease in their 25 years old. You know, you're dealing with this for for who knows how long It's already been almost a year like these, these are real outcomes, real consequences of this virus going around the world, and it's going to be huge. It's going to be something that is going to take many, many years to make sure everybody gets the attention they need.

Caroline Amos:

I love to sort of wrap up things on a more positive note. And I I'm curious to know what gives you hope right now, what keeps you going and what what makes you get through your day?

Anissa:

So I mentioned before that photography was something I'm doing right now it's keeping me - it's kind of replaced all of the energy it would put towards like working out and, and whatnot. I started a photography business, it's largely inspired by my dad, because he was really interested in taking photos like our entire life, so inherited his incredible camera collection. So I started a business during, during COVID. So that was, you know, one blessing I got,

Caroline Amos:

Wait, do you have like an Instagram handle you want to plug?

Anissa:

I do I do its @anissalatifphotography, um, you know, I'm super excited about that. It's been nice. Like, you know, I've been working with so many people, just a range of clients and teaching myself Photoshop and, and, you know, using Lightroom and everything, I've just, it's been great. And it distracts me. And it doesn't require a whole lot of lot of energy. Like, it's kind of like I feel really old, you know, I can't really move too much. But it's nice. It's, you know, I can move within within reason not feel exhausted all the time. So I really enjoy it.

Raymond McAnally:

Also, as artist, I'm sure I can speak for Carolyn, we're glad you found an artistic thing to to not only focus on but to turn into a way of making a living.

Caroline Amos:

Yeah. Congrats.

Anissa:

Thank you very much.

Caroline Amos:

Hey this is Caroline.

Raymond McAnally:

And Raymond

Caroline Amos:

Thank you so much for listening to Fatigue

Raymond McAnally:

from patients to paramedics, long haulers to lessons learned. Sure, it's the same virus but these are very different stories.

Caroline Amos:

If you have a question or a story you'd like us to address on an episode, please email us at fatiguedpodcast@gmail.com.

Raymond McAnally:

And don't forget to check us out on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter Clubhouse, right Clubhouse what is that?

Caroline Amos:

I don't even know But whatever it is, we're here to offer genuine conversations so we can humanize the issues surrounding COVID and the pandemic. These stories deserve the space to be remembered and we relish the opportunity for connection in this isolated time.

Raymond McAnally:

Perhaps you will too

Caroline Amos:

Stay positive

Raymond McAnally:

Test negative

Caroline Amos:

and thanks for listening.

Raymond McAnally:

Bye